I'm wondering if people experienced in pyromusicals can comment on the various electronic firing systems they've used, noting good thing and bad things. I'm looking to buy a system soon.

Also, what is the modern procedure for syncing with a radio station broadcast and how is the delay handled?

I think most digital firing system out there will all perform equally well under good conditions. The main difference between each other is mostly their resistance to abuse. This being said, I think the most robust system out there is pyrodigital. It has reliably fired shows in pouring rain, frigid weather (can you say -40??), and has always delivered for me. I also like the fact that it uses it's own, native FSK time code, wich is much more robust than traditionnal SMPTE time code used by most others. As fas as I know, FSK time code is the only one that can be sent over voice-grade lines without suffering any degradation. It can also be broadcasted using simple walkie-ralkies.

Syncing with a radio station is usually done by burning a time code track along with the music on an 8-track ADAT. That time code track is then used to keep the show in sync. It can be broadcasted to the firing site or you can use a dedicated hard line for it.

An easier way (and not as precise) is to run the show off an internal clock. You just have to fire the first cue manually, in sync with the music and the rest of the pre-programmed show just rolls along. Be sure to be on the beat on that first cue or the whole show will be out of sync!

A third way is to have some sort of cue prior to the music. In a section that the public will not hear. Let's say for example that you have a 5 minutes piece of music. Your recording could start with a countdown, 10-9-8, etc..., followed by 20 seconds of silence and your music would play from 0:30 until 5:30. The radio station DJ starts the music 30 seconds before the start of the show.That part of the music is not being broadcasted outside the studio. Your assistant {at the radio station) relays the countdown to you and your first cue is actually the "0" of the countdown, 20 seconds before the opening of the show. This is a dummy cue, not firing anything but starting the internal clock on the firing board. The radio station DJ now has 20 seconds to bring the faders up so that the public can hear the music, but not the countdown.

Hope this helps...

Pat

Thanks for the information Pat.

What happens if there is a delay between the radio broadcast and the timecode broadcast? For instance if the timecode is over phone lines and the music is over FM radio..... Is this usually neglible delay?

p.s. Do you own pyrodigital, and if so what version. I found a site that is advertising pyrodigital - just wondering if this is the latest version.

http://www.infinityvisions.com/pd_fm.htm

There is no delay if you use a radio link or a hard line. The only method that could give you problems is the use of mobile phones. These are known for buffering data on busy lines and that can induce some delay in the signal.

I do not own a PD system but I work for companies that do. Your web link is correct, infinity visions is the sole agent for the selling of PD gear. Whatever they sell will be the absolute latest version.

Regards,
Pat

This reminds me of something I have been curious about. How was WECO able to synchronise their show with a live orchestra in such a precise way? Did they do it with sophisticated electronic gadgetry or very alert people pushing lots of buttons?

that's a very good question. I've always wondered how that was done. If it was live, it had to have been done differently. How exactly was it done this way?

Anybody know?

That's a veey good question, multifan.

Trav.

Hi i'm an Italian boy, sorry for my English... I know how it works the PyroDigit

Hi i'm an Italian boy, sorry for my English... I know how it works the PyroDigit system and I think that it is the best.
These photos was of the 2° PyroDigit meeting in Vallo della Lucania fair, in the south of Italy, (sorry for the big size of the file, but the quality is very high:
http://www.pippar82.altervista.org/vallo/IMG_2959.JPG
http://www.pippar82.altervista.org/vallo/IMG_2960.JPG
http://www.pippar82.altervista.org/vallo/IMG_2980.JPG
http://www.pippar82.altervista.org/vallo/IMG_2991.JPG

these effects were prepared by one guy in 4 hours with that system: http://www.pippar82.altervista.org/vallo/IMG_2943.JPG , for a total of 40*15 = 600 shots in a pyromusic show of 20 minutes.

Filippo

Regarding WECO's sycronisation: I suppose they pre-recorded the track and programmed the timecode for this. Pahaps they had to adjust it a few times during the show, i don't know...

Lars

Lars,

I know what you mean. Everytime I think about their show, I always remember the risks that they took. It all worked so well and so perfect, that even if the slightest flaw, like weather cooperation in relation to the waterfall effect, it would not have worked out well. Plus the live orchestra was very authentic, but it was certainly difficult!

Regards,

Trav.

Hello!
Our company is producer for pyrotechnic equipment such as computer launching system, manual control panel and other

you can see some info about computer launching system in our website http://sherif.dp.ua/eng_pk10.php

Regards.

Hi Dima Kobzar, I read the description of your system and I have some questions:
1) The system works also with the radio modem or only by cable?
2) There aren't image of the system because I don't find it in the site is only in Russian and I don't speak it?
3) The system is made up of a master module that control the other module?

Hello, Pippar82.

Sorry for my English .
1.Our system works only by cable yet. Now we developing a radio design.
2.Images i can sent to you by e-mail
3.Right, system is made up of a master module that control the other module

If you have any questions, you can ask me.

I still wonder how that live orchestra for Weco worked out so well. I mean, how does one prepare for that? How are you synchronized at the very moment? What of there was a technical difficulty? So many questions arise when one considers these factors. Everything had to be precise! Another thing was the weather!

Trav.

Here are images of our system http://sherif.dp.ua/eng_pk10.php

Hi all,

I don't know how WECO synchronisation works, but in our system we can make corrections and asynchronous starts. We don't use FSK or SMPTE, because we want to have free frequency range for signals. Every module can be the master for initialisation. So if we make fireworks on live music, we have time-coded script downloaded in each module and we make corrections (0,1 s) everytime we want. It's easy if you have good communication protocol. It works like Internet - no main clock. If my laptop goes down, all system works. I can make corrections with small remote control box. http://www.merlinfire.com - there are not new photos about new system - maybe next month.

I assume the same procedure was followed with Weco. What they did that night was probbaly one of the most riskiest things that I've ever seen.

It just worked out. The lice orchestra was siply flawless which perfectly integrated to the display. You can only imagine what would happen if the weather did not cooperate. Fortunately for them, everything went well.

And that Was a show that I missed because I was in Ottawa that day.

Regards,

Trav.

Smoke, how can you say it was the riskiest thing you've ever seen in once sentence and then say that you missed it? You're a funny guy sometimes!

Smoke,

You are an idiot, who always seems to say something that embarrasses the regular readers/posters of this forum.

You never saw the WECO display, but yet you always have a comment regarding it. Even the other displays you have not witnessed, you have an opinion.

I don't think you should be able to comment on a display you haven't seen. We've went over this before. Read some of the past posts.

Eugene

I meant heard, not see.

Sorry about that, anonymous #1.

Eugene, the person who's only full of insults and negative comments. I thought I'd never hear from you again. Like only three times a year and yet you've nothing good to say. Shame on you. And if you think that you're a "regular poster", think again. At least regular posters are more kind and are not always jumping on your throat!

The only idiot here is you. I'm not perfect you know. I make mistakes in my posts, and for some odd reason, you're there at the time, and it's always about Weco. You have some grudge against me, that's for sure. I know, I understood that I should not rank a show without seeing it or give an opinion, but here I did it unintentionally, just with a simple word. For the last time, I'm sorry about the mistake! I know we've been over this.

No offense, man, you really should learn to talk better and be more polite. Sorry to say, you don't appear to have that ability.

Trav.

Sorry to break in - but pahaps it would be more suitable to remember the purpose of this forum: discussion of the pyromusical arts!

Not to comment on the previous posts, but i hope the tone will be more mature and respectfull in the comming post and not least get back to the original topic...

But that's just me!

Lars

You're right, Lars, it was immature, but I just couldn't let that go lightly. That guy really needs to watch it.

Anyways, Lars, what are your thoughts on best pyromusical equipment?

Trav.

the weco orchestra was'nt really playing, it was lipsync.

say what you want but I have a very reliable source that was on site, me

cheers

I invite people to talk about the various firing systems used especially the standing of Fireone vs Pyrodigital and Pyromate.
Feel free to comment about any aspects e.g. :

Popularity
Reliability
Limitations
Causes of problems
Wireless
Software
Using other scripting programs like Showsim

Dear forum,

What is the inside gossip on what is the most reliable fring systems?

Pyrodigital has been the sys of choice of the top tier firms in the past what about nowdays-do you see more Fireone?

I dont think that right now there's gonna be a "most" realiable firing system since there's already a lot of new systems that are out in the market. All with different features but most of them are similar. Some of the more popular systems now are Pyrodigital, Fireone, Efisy, Firemaster, Galaxis, Pyrodigit, and a lot more. So it all just depends on what the users need and also on their budgets.

Vander

The show will use around 205 FM-16 firing modules controlled by 9 Pyrodigital Field controllers (one being a backup). Yanick said he wants to make sure the show is fired irrespective of any technical problems that may crop up during the display.

9 controllers! At $10K ea. 205 FM-16 firing modules @ $1K. Total $300K excluding cables, splitters, software etc.

Is it correct that with Fireone you would need less controllers. Why so many with PD?

Why so many with PD?
If you have the controllers (and if you ever want to fire more than one PD show at once you will have more than one controller) you may as well use them. This makes for a more fault-tolerant show as you can have different controllers on different ramps so that if there is a problem, it doesn't take out your entire show. It's not that so many controllers are necessary (they're not) but if you have them it's better to use them!

Paul.

Is it correct that with Fireone you would need less controllers. Why so many with PD?

Actually, FireOne modules has 32 cues, while PD has 16. Which explains why it needs less firing modules....

Mylene.