Hello guys!

As usual, post your reviews here about tonight's Spanish display! I'm sure we'll be in for a treat!

And make sure to bring an umbrella!

Regards,

Trav.

Hey Trav,

I will be on the bridge this evening as usual. Nothing will stop me from attending a firework display from Spain! Not even thunderstorms! As you said, I think we'll get an earfull......and an eyefull too!

I feel like witnessing the most intense finale I have ever seen......bring on the salutes by the thousands!

And I am taking your advice, Trav.....I will bring my umbrella....and my camera too!

Enjoy!

Pierre

While working on my assignment for the university (at 4 AM in the morning here in Denmark) I listened to the soundtrack transmitted on the web by RythmeFM. It sounded like some "cue-demanding" pieces of music used

Some of the parts must have been very exciting and I am looking forward to read what you "live witnesses" think of the show and how the change from spanish music to Riverdance and Beethoven worked?

Greetings,
Lars

Hey guys,

To start off, Spain was very lucky. It's thundering and raining a lot now. And funny, I told Enkil that the storms may come after the display is over! There was also some lightning to the NE of the display as soon as it finished. Pierre, I'm happy you took my advice. The threat was definitely there but thankfully, the storms started appearing just after the display.

Anyways, I just got back from what I call a very traditional display. And the display is as Fred and Paul had foretold with many various low level effects that were VERY sequenced and timed with the music. It was a very different approach, indeed.

However, I was expecting a bit more from this performance, mainly because I felt that almost 3/4 of the display was redundant in the context of the same type of firing scenario.

The finale was starting off really good, but ended too quickly. If it had continued like that, it would have been crazy!

I'll have a full review tomorrow.

Good night!

Trav.

Greetings,

Well, well. It has truly been an excellent day, yesterday. Although, we did not reach the expected high of 34C because of excessive cloud cover. But we did hit 30C later in the afternoon, at least. It was also a significant difference with the amount of people that were present compared to that of last time. It was a pretty big crowd. Heavy heat and humidity was giving way to potential strong storms. The weather was very threatening most of the day, as I observed, especially in the early evening hours. There was some lightning both prior and after the display was expected to launch. I saw first few flashes as I walked up Rene-Levesque and Saint-Catherine to the Southwest. The other that I spotted was to the Northeast just 5 minutes after the display. When I got back home, about 20 minutes later, another storm developed in my area, though not as impressive, but with some decent rainfall. A very unstable airmass that made it hard to predict where and when it would happen. That's why I was worrying at about 9:00. Regardless, the display was spared and we saw a pretty good show.

I can say that the display was a successful one especially in the attempt of sequencing. The music also helped to prove this, particularly with many authentic low level effects. I also thought that this was a very different approach compared to that of what we've witnessed thus far.

To start off, the display was very traditional and very typical of Spanish type displays. We witnessed an incredible amount of variations between the music and how well timed the sequence of mines and candles were at the bottom to mid-level effects. It was rather exciting since this display started with a bang after the countdown. This always feels good.

Most of this display was done in the lower levels, so it was very different in the way this presentation was designed. In the segment after the beginning, there were these wheels that had given off two colors, changing from blue to orange, I think. I could see that they were used once more in a latter segment, as well, with more glitters. This was very nice, especially since we could see it at a good angle.

The effects all the way through were very traditional and expected of Spain! I'm talking about those serpents that make that eagle/missile noise. They had an incredible effect to that of the upper shells. The noise always gives you that feeling of delight. It was also very dramatic. There were also many go-getters, if that's what they're called, in the upper levels while the sequence of serpents were going at the bottom. Actually, this was also constituted by other shells that produced serpents and the same noise at mid levels to sometimes higher levels. This was great when it was scattered in the sky. There also some very noticeable colors, particularly the way it was presented in one of the latter parts. It was those shells that had a mixture of red and yellow, while lower cracklers gave off the same color. This was a favorite. There were also many white kamuros and a lot of glittering weeping willows. One of these segments was also breathtaking, especially when those huge glittering weeping willows gave way to some transitional colors as the effect trailed into river and lake, I assume.

I'm more than certain that excellent use was made of the lake. I saw many lightning like flashes at the very bottom several times throughout the show. I could conclude that this had to have been nautical effects. Around the beginning, this was supplemented by both blue and green colors following the bright flashes. I personally loved this this since it was transitional and really created a unique effect on the corresponding smoke. The kamuros also made a nice effect in prior segments.

I must also comment on the girandolas! They were double-ascension and gold glittering and then crackled upon a certain height. Always a favorite to the audience. Lars was right.

There was also some moments of excitment which is typical of Spanish firms, though I was hoping for a bit more exciting moments, but it was still apparent, particulalry with the faux finale and another segment involving those really loud cracklers in the mid levels. Then sequences at the top! This was very exciting and left a big echo!

I must comment on the sequencing of this show, particularly with the nautical effects and the way in which the low levels were executed in a variety of ways. This was original. The color was also amazing which also linked to the way the lower effects were made. That huge shell at the bottom was a big surprise!

Choice of music and synchronization was pretty good, especially considering that it worked well this kind of display. It was so tight with the bottom effects that it was really enjoyable with, once again, the color and glittering mines, along with the corresponding candles.

Travis' personal rankings and display criteria ratings:

-Synchronization: 9.7/10-This is because the lower effects worked so well with the overall concept of the display. The music also, once again, made it feel like the fireworks were dancing. It was that tight, particularly in this display.
-Color: 9.5/10-This was apparent, especially since there were many colors at the lower level with the mines and candle use. Also, the nautical effects were very transitional.
-Creativity/Originality and Concept: 7.6/10-This was probably the bigger problem, in my opinion. It was way too redundant, especially with those serpents with the eagle/missile noise, though I welcomed it! Also, I felt that the show, in which it was presented, was repetitive particularly with the firing in some segments. I also felt that there wasn't enough variety compared to what Sweden did.
-Choice of music: 9.5/10-Well, it wasn't my personal preferences, but I did like a couple of them, but it helped link to the main theme and with the low effects, in particular.
-Finale/Overall appreciation: 8.7/10-This finale was at the level to be the best, but it didn't last as long as I wanted. But the overall appreication was great!
Overall: 9/10

My personal rankings:

1-Sweden
2-France
3-Spain
4-Argentina
5-Australia.

My jury predictions so far:

1-Sweden/Argentina
2-Could either be one of the above
3-France/Spain

In conclusion, I suspect that the jury is still highly contemplating between Sweden and Argentina for the gold. I also feel that Spain and France are struggling for the bronze mainly because of the concept of both displays and probably the choice of music. The choice of music for this display was amazing, though not my personal preference, but it did connect with the design of this type of display. There were many effects that coincided with different levels which also made it interesting. The use of other types, like those spectacular girandolas also demonstrated the theme. The only criticism that I have about this display was mainly redundancy. Don't get me wrong, the way in which it was presented was incredible with various effects to make transitions, but the same idea was still there, which gave me that feeling several times. For example, you'll have the mines and candles at the bottom, while you have a few shells fired at the top, then shoot tons of lower shells at a much higher rate to end the segment. This was the case in many parts, though at least there were some differences, but my point is that the same idea was there. Also, there were many serpents that were used, though I enjoyed this a lot and it is a very minor criticism, in my opinion, since it does remind me of Spanish tradition, which has also been demonstrated in the past, and hence their main theme. I also noticed that this display had a habit to resume quickly between segments. There were barely any breaks! By the time the audience started applauding, the next part was already up there. This is not a criticism, though. I really like that! This could have been because of the music. Finally, the finale could have been a little longer, but it was still very enjoyable!

The way this display was sequenced at the low levels was simply incredible, especially with the angles in which it was portrayed and I feel that this could be to their advantage. The colors were also nicely selected to fit in. This was a very traditional display and has taken such a different approach that it may be contending for a Jupiter, but I suspect that this will be either the bronze or potentially the silver.

Finally, this is one of the first years where so many entrants deserve a prize at the beginning. There's still 4 firms to go, including the newcomer, Czech Republic, and I'm more than certain that these remaing shows will be way up there. A lot of tension will be there during Panzera. You can bet on that.

I look foward to reading all of your thoughts and comments!

Regards,

Trav.

Trav,

thanks for your report - you'll be able to take over my job soon! Just to clarify one aspect though - there were no nautical effects used which was surprising.
All the low-level flash effects were on ramp 3.

You're also right about the level of the competition this year. Already we have
had 4 shows which deserve a prize and I'm sure the upcoming shows will also
be in tight competition.

My report is up now.

Paul.

Paul,

Thanks for your kind remarks. However, I doubt I could ever take over your job! I still consider myself an amateur. Also, thank you for the clarifications about the nautical effects. I was surprised there were none, myself. When I saw those bright flashes, I figured they were definitely nautical effects, but apparently, they weren't. But those effects were spectacular, none the less.

And yes, I forgot to comment on the wind. A little more would have definitely helped. I did notice some smoke accumulations on the eastern side and probably hindered a couple of mines in some segments, but that was no big deal.

A truly remarkable display, but, once again, I expected a little more from them. Perhaos this is because I felt that there was some upper action, with shells, missing at times during the display, but it was an excellent effort, for sure!

Regards,

Trav.

Hi everybody,

The terraces of La Ronde were almost full for this fifth entrant in the competition. We enjoyed perfect weather conditions, but wind orientation was again in a wrong direction for the audience, covering us of powder and small fragments during some parts of the show! Just after the display, a fire continued on the third firing ramp, for sure damaging a part of it. Between the official ceremony and the show, I met Paul, ready with pen and notebook in his hands, who looked very thrilled, anticipating this record breaking 6000-cues display!

I think that Ricardo Caballer and his team have produced a good firework show. The tribute to Cervantes’ Don Quixote occuring during the first segment – the longest – was very interesting, with thirteen windmills along ramp 3. These setup pieces lit up with pink and yellow helixes, then the helixes started a rotation producing a kind of golden gerbs. Later during this segment, some groups of angled silver gerbs (or very small mines) lit up one after the other, creating a fan, in a perfect synchronization with the music. Besides, synchronization was perfect throughout the show. I particularly appreciated the fast sequences of percussion-synchronized photo-flashes during River Dance. The richness of colours is another strong component of this Caballer’s performance. Several multicolours and changing colours pieces were launched during this 30-minute-and-5-second display, including colourful fireballs. The audience enjoyed the flights of double-ascension giradolas. Mascletas had been used by Vicente Caballer last year, but there are very unusual in Montreal. Moreover, this show did not suffered of any significant technical problem.

Owing to these positive aspects, it was a good show. However, due to the high level of the competition, producing a good show is not enough to go on the podium and I believe that Ricardo Caballer and his team will not go this year.

First, the opening tribute to Don Quixote aside, this display was not organized on a theme. On this point, I must emphasize on the musical side of the show. On one hand, the soundtrack was technically ok. We listen a sequence of ten musics, without any special mixing between them. On the other hand, it was artistically strange. The press release edited by La Ronde announced popular zarzuela and pasodoble and that were, I believe, the first eight segments of the show. But the link between this Spanish music and Whelan’s River Dance, then Beethoven’s Ode to Joy, is not clear for me. I really like River Dance and I was happy when I saw this piece on the list, but I honestly think that this choice was not appropriate. Am I wrong?

Second, it is a shame that no nautical effect were used, especially considering that it was not Pirotécnia Ricardo Caballer’s first presence in Montreal. I also note that no piece were installed on the fourth ramp and no floating platform were added. That did not look like a show designed for Montreal. In 2005, the displays produced here are not similar to those produced in 1998. Now, the contestants make the most of the configuration of La Ronde site. Just imagine the effect of mascletas if they would have been installed on floating platforms near the audience! They were rather on the third ramp and they « quietly » blew up during the finale. Personally, I noticed these mascletas because I had watched the setup and I has been informed about them by Paul before the show, but I am sure that many people at La Ronde did not see them.

Third, as many of you already noted, the range of effects was limited.

Finally, I want to add some words about the record number of cues used to produce this show. Technically, it is impressive. I understand that it is an important feature of the show for professionals. I suppose that designing a display with so many cues is a very difficult task and I obviously respect the enthusiasm of some people regarding that. However, I do not want to be a killjoy but the jury – and the public – does not really care about the technic behind the scene. And this is a right stand : what matter most are the effects created in the sky, no the number of cues, neither the setup.

In conclusion, I am a little bit disappointed by this display, but we should remind that many segments were very interesting and that the synchronization was flawless throughout the show. Actually, my ranking is (1) Sweden, (2) Argentina, (3) France, (4) Spain and (5) Australia.

Fred

Fred,

Wow, I can see your perspective of the display. However, I don't really think it was that bad, but, as I said, I was expecting a bit more, but in different areas, including some of which you mentioned. But your report is very comprehensive and I understand why you stated those facts. You see, to me, I felt the display wasn't exactly balanced between low level and high level effects, but at the same time, it was successful in its approach with lower concentration.

I also forgot to mention one minor thing. This is variation. Unlike the past 3 shows, this one didn't, I think, have transitional moments between speeds. Maybe it was just me, but I couldn't identify moments of serenity. The excitment was there, but other moments were lacking. But, as I said, this is minor. This is probably responsible from their main theme which takes away variety of speeds. This appeared to be based on rapid synchronization all the way through, which IS my type of display!

Trav.

Fred,

thanks for your comments. Just to let people know, I use a pencil to write my notes - the advantage of this is that it works even if it is raining

As for the mascelta effects used by Vicente Caballer last year, they were more of the photo-flash effect than the loud explosion normally associated with a mascleta. Ricardo Caballer used both, but, to my taste, there were too few explosions. A real Mascleta, presented in the Plaza Del Ayuntamiento in Valencia, is an experience as much felt as seen or heard.

You're right about the theme too - I also noticed that the music list in the press release was in a somewhat different order than that used in the display. And it is also a shame that most of the audience do not appreciate the technical aspects of such a display with this enormous number of cues. That said, it is the overall impression which counts, not the means behind-the-scenes to create that impression. Some of the best displays I've seen at La Ronde have used the fewest number of cues - I remember one display a few years ago that had only 110 - but it was artfully executed using traditional methods and worked very well. I think we're somewhat spoiled now and expect the level of complexity that we've come to see in the past few years.

Best regards,

Paul.

Hey guys, I took some pictures of the fireworks lastnight
check it out some came out very nice. http://www.rptn.net/gallery/fireworks_20050713

Paul,

I think it's an interessting point that a higher technical level not necesarily means better displays, measured overall. As I understand from what I am reading on this forum all you guys still have Swedens display as your personal favourite.

This is an example that proves that statement: Sweden used 1660 cues compared to Ricasas 6000 cues.

As I can read from the report on swedens display the theme it itself was a great asset to the show, and the choreography, range of products and harmony between music and fireworks etc. were very well-done in that display, which must be why you have it as your favourite. And therefore rank it above Ricasas "tecnically perfect show" if one can put it this way

I think it's positive that it is still the conception, chorepgraphy but not least whole story/theme of the display (or soul if you like?) which matters the most

Kind regards,
Lars

Guys,

What exactly do you mean by "cues?" I've heard the concept for years now, but I just want to know what the terminology is in fireworks terms.

Thanks!

Trav.

From dictionary.com:

cue n.

1. A signal, such as a word or action, used to prompt another event in a performance, such as an actor's speech or entrance, a change in lighting, or a sound effect.

In fireworks terms, a cue is the signal to ignite a firework or group of fireworks. In general, the more cues, the more complex a display. In computerized firing systems a cue is the time a which a particular effect is ignited - using a firing module - each module has an address and a number of cues so this will appear in the script. You can use a spreadsheet for the script which lists all the times and addresses of the effects or use special choregraphy software to greatly simplify this task.

In the Pyrodigital system used by Ricasa, each firing module can ignite 16 cues. With 456 modules, this gave the possibility for 7296 cues, but often times more than one module is given a command at the same time so a single cue in the script may initiate one or more modules at once. Since yesterday's display was 1830 seconds long and there were 6061 cues, that's about 3.3 cues per second. Imagine how much work went into deciding what effect should be fired at all those points in time!

Paul.

Trav,

A cue is a "marked time" in the firing system. When the time code running reaches the time of a specific cue, it is fired. I guess you could also call it "actions" meaning that e.g. caballer had 6000 actions in their display - or 6000 times when a pyrotecnical device was fired / and "something happened". If you e.g. have 3 firing positions for shells and the firing modules are adressed differently (which is the case for the firing systems i have worked with) you will have to make 3 cues in your script (the firing-program containing the cues with the firing times).

Regarding effective use of cues: If you use an e-match for each shell with e.g. 3 seconds delay istead of using ordinary delay-fuses with 3 seconds delay your total number of cues will be very high without necessarily making the display look more impressive to the audience. As an example the show by the chinese company Lidu in Tarragona (which i was told was made by Ricasa!) had one igniter for every shell and the show used a total of 1900 cues. When the first shells fired were bursting in the sky one did not notice and appreciate the precision of digital firing. To some extend a little waste of cues

Lars

I'm a bit late because my internet was down, but I had my review ready long time ago.

I arrived there at around 8:30pm. Quickly, I found a perfect spot. It took forever to start! I have to say, I was so uncomfortable sitting on those rocks near the gate for two hours.

There was a lot of people despite the little rain threat that we usually get. Once again, it didn't rain, but it was really hot.

I think this display ressembled a bit to France's display, mainly because a lot of "candles" were used. I think the left to right (vise versa) shootings were enjoyable and typicly "Ricasaish". But I found that some segments were just OK. There were some parts where there was a bit of repetition because of the same product being used over and over. I thought they could have added different effects.

I also thought the music was just fine. So the song selection was OK. As for the synchronization, it was good in general. However I found that some moments could have been better.

And the "Spanish Passion" theme was a nice theme, but I still don't understand to who they were trying to pay tribute...

Basically, it was a typical Spanish show, but more and less enjoyable. I say this because I believe the Swedish was far more enjoyable (a never-boring show).

As for the finale, it was OK. It was a bit like Sweden, but again, not long and intense enough in my taste. So far, I think France had the best finale.

But one more thing, thank you for the salutes! Finally, real salutes!

My ratings, so far:

1. Sweden
2. France
3. Spain
4. Argentina
5. Australia

Generally based on how I felt and what I liked best.

Again, as Smoke said, I suspect the judge's favorite is Argentina or Sweden.

Paul and Lars,

Thanks a lot for both of your explanations. It's much more clear now.

Enkil,

You have the exact same rankings as I do! I'm glad that we see things similarly. And I'm also happy that everyone is still sticking with Sweden!

However, once again, we still have 4 participants to go. But, it's sort of depressing because we're already half way through the competition. And it's just going to go faster now.

Trav.

Hey guys,

I guess I am the last to give my opinion about Spain's performance this past Wednesday. Before I got on the bridge, my expectations were really high, as I often enjoyed Spain's performances in the past! That is not good, because you assume that you will be viewing something huge and wonderful, so the stakes are high!

After reading all of your comments, I realise that I am probably the one who enjoyed this display the most, as I thought that there was a lot of action with no "dead" periods....or did I miss them? Yes, there was a lot of repetition, but there were lots of interesting stuff in there......I think of those rockets made of a bright red (some others were blue) spot on top with lower part made of white twinkling stars....kind of hard to explain what it was in English, but I think you know what I mean. Loved those serpents. Also loved the fact that many times, the show was noisy, which I love very much. While I was watching and enjoying the display, I thought that the finale would be quite loud and intense. As Trav said, it started off very nicely, but ended way too quickly, as if something went wrong! As I was walking back toward my car, I felt a bit disappointed, but still, I enjoyed the overall display.

Now, since I am an amateur who enjoys firework displays, I will rank the countries according to what thrills me, what makes me feel good as I watch fireworks. It has nothing to do with how they set up the fireworks or what they use, etc... Also, finales have a huge influence on my choices (I know that the judges have different criterias for their choices but again, I am just an amateur and I let finales "cloud" my judgement intentionally....LOL)


So, because of that, I will rank the countries three times: First, for their display without the finale, Second, for their finale and Third, for their overall performance!

In order of their performance without the finale (first 28 minutes of the display):

1. Sweden
2. France
3. Spain
4. Argentina
5. Australia

In order of their performance during the finale:

1. France (I agree with you Enkil )
2. Sweden
3. Spain
4. Argentina
5. Australia

In order of their overall performance (entire 30 minutes including finale):

1. Sweden
2. France
3. Spain
4. Argentina
5. Australia

I must add that putting Sweden in first place over France, is a tough choice, as I thought that France's finale was more intense and the build up made me shake. Finales which are noisy, fast-paced, huge, bright, packed with thunderous salutes and which never stop intensifying, have an incredible impact on myself and therefore, on my choices....to the extent that I will prefer an ordinary display with an incredible finale, to a very good display with a quiet finale!

Yes Trav......as I was heading back home, like you, I thought that we are already halfway into the season......and because from now on it will be twice a week, the second half will go by a lot faster!

......but we still have a lot of pleasure ahead of us!

Have a great weekend, guys!

Pierre

Oh Trav.......I forgot to add that I recorded Spain's finale....it is very clear....and unfortunately, it did not take much space in the memory (wink, wink).

Take care, my friend.

Pierre

Salut

ouf.....la course pour l'obtention d'un Jupiter se corse.Cà me rappelle 2003 alors que j'étais membre du jury de 15 personnes .J'avais écrit à L,époque que c'était bien peu dans une compétition serrée. Je me souviens alors qu'après les prestations moyennes de l'argentine et de la France tous les autres pays avaient offerts de grandes performances.
Ce qui est intéressant dans ce forum c'est de constater que chacun comme c'est le cas pour les assidus des feux de Montréal regarde les feux à sa facon en les jugeant selon ses goûts, ses critères, ses attentes....etc...Le jury est censé représenter la population qui est en fait la première raison d'être et de durer des feux de Montréal.
Cette année la tâche de notre jury populaire s'annonce ardue. Je sais bien pour en avoir fait partie que chacune des personnes de ce jury voit un feu à sa facon et son jugement doit s'inscrire à l'intérieur des critères suivant lesquels il doit apprécier les différentes performances.
Les montréalais ont toujours eu un faible pour les feux Espagnols et ce depuis 21 ans.L'autre soir j'étais sur le pont et les gens applaudissaient spontannément et généreusement après chacun des segments.
La firme Ricardo Caballer n'a pas décu. Elle a présenté un feu dans la plus pure tradition Espagnole;un performance éblouissante, époustouflante qui n,a laissé aucun répit aux spectateurs .
Un nombre imposant de magnifiques pièces pyrotechniques diversifiées,multicolores bien agencées et très correctement réparties sur le site...un exercice assez complexe sur le plan technique que cette firme a réalisé avec brio avec une excellente trame sonore et un syncronisation vraiment très au point.
Entre autre j'ai vraiment adoré ce qu'ils ont produit avec la musique de l'homme de la mancha et plus tard avec Espana. Le feu dansait sur le site et dans le ciel, un feu très chaleureux et rytmé à souhait.
Avec de très bons enchainements l'Espagne a soutenu l'intérêt des gens pendant toute la présentation.
J'ai moins apprécié leur prestation avec Riverdance.Il y a quelques années une firme américaine je crois Atlas ou Sousa avaient offerts une performance époustouflante avec ce choix musical .
Aussi je crois que le choix de cette musique ne cadrait pas très bien avec les autres musiques choisis par les Espagnols.
J'aurais bien aimé qu'ils utilisent des bombes nautiques. Je crois que cà manquait ...Le lac constitue un site magique pour la créativité des concepteurs et bien que je respecte leurs choix ils auraient du l'utiliser.Le jury a surement noté cà.
Au niveau de la créativité, de l'innovation rien de bien particulier. Les Espagnols ont utilisé leurs valeurs sures et cà il l'ont fait avec brio.Le concept choisi était bien ordinaire mais traduisait bien dans l'action la passion Espagnole.
Bref un grand feu d'artifice dans la pure tradition Espagnole.

Je suis ressorti du feu après un beau bouquet finale multicolore et très sonore.
Le passioné des feux était satisfait.

Ce soir des petits nouveaux....les Tchèques. J'ai hâte de voir cà.

Roger

Pierre,

It's always a pleasure to hear your cheery comments! I'm also happy that you got the finale recorded! You have no idea on how much appreciated that is to us!

I also like your idea on making a specific section for ranking countries by finales! Sounds like fun. I'll probably do that in my next review after my predictions on the winner and my jury predictions. Just for fun, I'll do that now:

Travis' personal choice on best finales:

1-France
2-Sweden
3-Spain
4-Argentina
5-Australia

Pretty much what you and Enkil summarized.

The finale for Spain was pretty good in the long run, but the problem was the length, as I said. It started really nicely, but ended too fast.

As for the competition, in general, well, I guess all good things must come to an end But lests not think about that now! We still have plenty of more displays to see!

Well, my friend, once again, it's great to hear your comments and I also look foward to your comments about tonight's display.

Roger,

I agree with most of your comments, but my only problem with the display was the redundancy. However, we can't rule out the possibility of this show! It was very traditional, as you and all of us said, and it was different in the way it was designed.

Regards,

Trav.